POTW results: The high seas of piracy

PALGN News | Set sail for interesting results.

Last week, we asked what seems to be an increasingly common question: have videogame publishers gone too far with anti-piracy measures? The results were, in all likelihood, never in doubt, and the votes came in strongly for the 'yes' column.

However, the more intriguing aspect of the poll - and the reason we decided to run it to begin with - was not who won, but by how much. In this light, the results are more interesting. Twenty-three per cent of voters (or 69 votes) agreed that consumers should expect such measures in order to protect intellectual property. Though this is clearly the minority, it perhaps suggests that anti-piracy measures such as DRM aren't quite as universally condemned as some may think.

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24 Comments

Aftershock

3 years ago

So what if everyone condemns it?
Everyone condemned the Holocaust, and we know how awesome that was.

/joke.

Not surpised.
Someone always ruins the party.

djrussell

3 years ago

Piracy is bad. Full stop. Its great; yes, but its still bad - and as long as there are assholes out there stealing **** that isnt theres then theres gonna be a problem.

stick_theory

3 years ago

i may (or may not) be guilty of piracy, but my gripe is with the outright abusers of piracy, the folks that dont have a legitimate or tangible piece of media in their property. i see piracy for myself as a means to preview such media. if i like it, i do buy it, but this is in no way meant to be a justification (i just have limited monies

). if my method were adopted by everyone, then i think there would be an monetary increase in the most deserving area, eg. a game may be hyped big so many people buy, the companies make money, and even though the product is in actuality, extremely dodgy, the companies assume we are in favour of that junk. my method promotes only quality releases to rise to the top in recognition, therefore leading a positive consumer/publisher revolution.

as for the drm issue. i think people fail to realize how common this measure is. have you ever tried to make copies of a dvd, only to be told it is copy-protected, thus leaving you with the ability to only play it on one dvd player at a time? even music was censored in a similar manner earlier on. i may be wrong, but arent much more expensive products like operating systems and suites limited to one install per computer also (and fo a long while prior to drm)?

Lord Haart

3 years ago

Pirates are the scum of the earth. That said, there are indeed cases where products are overpriced, which is why a games-as-a-service is the model of the future.

It will no longer cost Jimmy $110Au to play Assassin's Creed for 5 hours, but Tommy will need to pay the big bucks for his insatiable addiction to Fallout 3. Certainly not ideal (I say this as a devout Fallout 3 fan), but much fairer.

Of course, monitoring hours played is even more invasive than DRM... Perhaps the basic game will always work, and people just pay to have access to upgrades/patches (though this is of questionable profit to the developers).

Passa

3 years ago

As I've said before, I think a lot of it is a grey area. Yeah I've pirated, most of my piracy has been limited to portable consoles. Why? Portable games are ridiculously overpriced. I find it hard to justify the $60 AUD for a new release NDS game when I can spend the same amount on an Xbox 360 or PC game and have much more fun with a much deeper experience. Portable games prices are all wrong.

Do I consider myself a criminal for that? Nope.. I own something like 40 Xbox/X360 games and around the same number of PC games. Typically I'll only pirate a PC game nowadays if it uses activation based DRM or if it's hard to find (older games) to the point where I'd need to buy a copy off eBay (which doesn't help developers..)

heatseeker

3 years ago

stick_theory wrote

my gripe is with the outright abusers of piracy, the folks that dont have a legitimate or tangible piece of media in their property. i see piracy for myself as a means to preview such media. if i like it, i do buy it, but this is in no

I agree. I know of some people that just download loads of things.. i ask them why? they just ignore me. When i happen to come across a game or music that looks good and if there isn't a demo available, sure, ill give it a go.

ittekimasu

3 years ago

The only thing that really bothered me with DRM is that i needed to have an active connection to the internet to play (was wanting to buy spore for the PC while I had no net) so that dissapointed me slightly.

jaiel_kstyl

3 years ago

lol @ overpriced justifications

Think about it.
Petrol is overpriced.
Does that give you the right to fill up and run?

Benza

3 years ago

jaiel_kstyl wrote

lol @ overpriced justifications

Think about it.
Petrol is overpriced.
Does that give you the right to fill up and run?

*Sigh* For like the 100th time.
Piracy isn't theft because no one is deprived of physical goods.

macca macca

3 years ago

They really have to look at the fact, that the people who pirate games, movies, music are the ones who buy dvd's buy games, and goto the movies. I pirate *cough* some stuff , but i also have a 200+ dvd collection, a 250+ vinyl collection, and stacks of brought games.

rufati

3 years ago

No matter how you try and slice it, piracy is still a criminal act. Especially since there are so many sources of information on games available to help deciding on what's worth your money, saying that you need to pirate to test a game out is just taking the piss.

Sure I've done it before, and most people would be lying if they said they hadn't, but that was in my teens when I had few morals (and no money). However now if I can't afford it, I don't get it. If I'm not 100% sure that I will like the game, I don't buy it.

Anyway, on topic: We need less anti-piracy measures (besides the basics) and more rewards for legitimate consumers. Like how I was pleasantly surprised after buying Gears of War 2 today that I get some free maps that pirates won't. I think a better idea may be to give people a code/voucher that will give them access to some kind of exclusive member's account, where they get ongoing exclusive content instead of just the one off kinda thing.

Jellyfish

3 years ago

Benza wrote

jaiel_kstyl wrote

lol @ overpriced justifications

Think about it.
Petrol is overpriced.
Does that give you the right to fill up and run?

*Sigh* For like the 100th time.
Piracy isn't theft because no one is deprived of physical goods.

Dictionary doesn't agree with you. Considering how many people have been convicted for stealing ideas revolving around patents and such the Law also disagrees with you.

Benza

3 years ago

nikack wrote

Benza wrote

jaiel_kstyl wrote

lol @ overpriced justifications

Think about it.
Petrol is overpriced.
Does that give you the right to fill up and run?

*Sigh* For like the 100th time.
Piracy isn't theft because no one is deprived of physical goods.

Dictionary doesn't agree with you. Considering how many people have been convicted for stealing ideas revolving around patents and such the Law also disagrees with you.

It's copyright infringment. Not theft, they're classed as diffrent crimes. They're still illegal but they're not the same.

jaiel_kstyl

3 years ago

So please enlighten me on the difference between walking away with a bunch of games in your pocket from your local EB and downloading games from the internet.

Edit: the only difference I see is that you would be stealing from different people.

magrat

3 years ago

jaiel_kstyl wrote

While the net outcome is no different, in that you have a game you didn't buy, but by stealing the physical property of the store you have committed theft, a crime against property, and would be arrested and charged under the Crimes Act alongside car thieves, burglars and other unsavoury types. Whereas after downloading the game you'd end up in court under the Copyright Act facing what would be in comparison trivial charges that would involve a fine. I know which I'd prefer!

The fact that you have taken a physical piece of property from the owner makes theft that much more serious than the duplication of something (which leaves the owner with their property unaffected). At least that was my take on it, your honour.

Mush Man

3 years ago

Edit (29/2/2011): Piracy discussion is stupid. This post was stupid. It is now removed.

magrat

3 years ago

Mush Man wrote

Piracy is therefore wrong.

Benza

3 years ago

Now try making the post without pulling all the facts out of your arse.

You rekon game developers don't care? Um you can rekon all you want but the protests on Amazon and the general outcry over Spores DRM did get it changed. Interviews with developers have specificly said they look at feedback.

The whole thing on Newtons Third law of motion. You just made up. Unless you can give actuly statistcs or data about it then you have no point at all. I could make up just as much crap to counter your argument but I don't have the facts so I'm not going to.

The Genius

3 years ago

Mush Man, you make a very articulate argument and you do know what you are talking about.

Unfortunately here that doesn't count for anything (as I have experienced first hand) simply because your political ideology is against the masses here.

I am not a Conservative, I am an Independent. So I see the good in both the Liberalism and Conservatism.

But unfortunately even I am hated and seen as that "Evil Self Righteous Conservative' for simply disagree with a number of practises considered 'normal' in our very Progressive modern day society we live in.

And it's really sad when you have folks who can't see the positives or good in other folks simply because they disagree with a few of their practises or ideology.

And this issue of piracy is a prime example.

My stance of piracy is in the line with Mush Man's take on the issue.

Simply because no one is entitled to anything, no least a form of entertainment. Video games are a luxury. And that is the bottom line. The same goes for other forms of entertainment like Foxtel.

So if you can't afford video games, you do something else. Get a book, go to the beach, play football with mates or go skateboarding etc.

There are Social Welfare programmes to help the disadvantaged in our society like Centre Link. It provides help for people who can't afford the basics like rent, food and clothing. Because those are what are necessities you need to live. They don't give you money to get yourself stuff like games or DVD's because those are no necessities. So if you don't have games to play you will still live.

That's what ultimately makes piracy wrong and unjustified.

Cheers

Sin Ogaris

3 years ago

DRM isn't a decision of the developer, moreso the publisher.

ObsoletE

3 years ago

The Genius wrote

this half of the post is utter horse-s**t.
it has nothing to do with your political ideology, it's that you're completely confrontational, and post rather inflammatory comments which people take at face value as there's nothing (usually) to justify your stance and requires editting and back-peddling to get your initial comment, and opinion across.
and like the Bali Bomber Execution post you made, even upon explanation, you remained confrontational, even offensive to other people, and their opinions, which are just as right and valid as your own.

The Genius wrote

And this issue of piracy is a prime example.

My stance of piracy is in the line with Mush Man's take on the issue.

Simply because no one is entitled to anything, no least a form of entertainment. Video games are a luxury. And that is the bottom line. The same goes for other forms of entertainment like Foxtel.

So if you can't afford video games, you do something else. Get a book, go to the beach, play football with mates or go skateboarding etc.

There are Social Welfare programmes to help the disadvantaged in our society like Centre Link. It provides help for people who can't afford the basics like rent, food and clothing. Because those are what are necessities you need to live. They don't give you money to get yourself stuff like games or DVD's because those are no necessities. So if you don't have games to play you will still live.

That's what ultimately makes piracy wrong and unjustified.

Cheers

i do agree with this half of the post though.

i have downloaded copyright materials in the past, and will likely do so in the future. and like someone else said, my "justification" is one of demo-ing the product. if i like it, i buy it, if i don't, i delete it. they (as well as music) are a luxury item. i am buying them after the essentials are bought (and some of these are likewise luxury items) but given my wallet is finite, i like to know what i'm buying is good, and more importantly, fun. i know i never would've bought Spore, for example, if i had pirated it first, so that's $100 wasted on a box that sits on my shelf.
but the justification is false, i have no right to do so.

but relative to the question-
as someone who has pirated, then bought games, i can say that the procedure for accessing illegal copies of games is often FAR AND AWAY easier than the process of accessing the legal copies of the game.

and this is why i think i voted in the "too far" choice.

people who pirate are going to do so anyway, they're a lost cause, likewise people who buy legit copies will continue to do so. DRM doesn't discourage people against piracy, and makes people, like me, wonder what the point of installing the legit game when we've got a more convenient version already working.

this is another thing i do.

i will uninstall pirated games, and reinstall using my legit CD-Key, but i will then often apply the no-cd patch, or the patch that stops the game "phoning home" each time it boots.
again, illegal, but it's so much more convenient.
and once again, the justification is false, i have no right to do this.
(this part might've changed with the who "Fair Use" changes, but afaik, it's still illegal to alter the software.)

Fetidchimp

3 years ago

I wonder what people would say if your console games became permanently attached to your console and wouldn't work on anyone elses.....that would go down well.

ObsoletE

3 years ago

^ it already pisses me off that XBLA games are like this.

i want to be able to take my HDD to a mates place, and be able to play TMNT Arcade on his machine.

jaiel_kstyl

3 years ago

At the end of the day, it seems like it all comes down to one thing. Money.

Companies don't want to lose a single cent of profit from all the potential buyers (including regretful buyers), and the people are reluctant to spend large amounts of their hard earned money on something so non-essential (or as they think) such as games, movies or music.

The game companies usually spend millions of dollars plus 1-4years to develop one project.
We just see it as another piece of bad/ok/good form of entertainment.

I guess this big difference in value makes this problem difficult to solve.

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