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Jeremy Jastrzab
03 Aug, 2009

Love to Hate #7

PALGN Feature | From out of the shadows...
As the Executive Editor of this esteemed publication, I mainly avoid the daily tirades of embarrassing feature ideas and suggestions. That's Brendan’s job (thankfully!), though the stationery section is starting to wrack up a rather hefty bill... And mainly on 'rejected' stamps… Anyway, it seems that my lowly peons have been having a lot of fun with this article, so I've decided to join in the fun as well.

Still, I think these young ‘uns have been a little tame so far. Or maybe it’s just that they view their gaming through colourfully tinted glasses. Come on, as much as I love these guys like my little brothers, all their games and series so far have been easy targets. Lego, Motorstorm, Sonic and Ninja Gaiden II, Mega Man X? Way too easy! And who the heck has heard of that Sherlock Holmes game? It’s time to show why I’m meant to be running this joint and to shake some foundations.

Think I’m kidding? My first pick is a game that I really do like and there are aspects of it that I truly love. And a lot of those who would likely describe themselves as ‘core’ gamers probably like or even love this game. Sure enough, it has one of the greatest concepts that I've ever encountered and I immensely enjoyed playing through it. Twice. However, I’ve always been a proponent of ‘gameplay is king’ and as much as I loved playing Shadow of the Colossus, I just couldn’t ignore some of the hates. And judging by the sales of the game, I wasn't alone.

Best. Concept. Ever.

Hmm… So we start off by saying what we liked about the game? Gladly. There are so many things to like about Shadow of the Colossus, that I can almost understand why gamers gush and wax lyrical while blatantly ignoring its flaws. It starts at the title. SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS. Now that’s a name that oozes awesome through every single tiny orifice and as a long time gamer, is something that will get my attention.

Then you’ve got the minimalist story. In summary, it’s about a dude wants to revive his dead girlfriend. By killing Colossi. Also, in something synonymous with it’s Eastern origins, it’s a story that leaves a lot up to the player to interpret. However, it doesn’t beat you over the head with this and doesn’t come off as pretentious or contrived, unlike another title that will be the subject of this column at a future date.

Your basic objective is to beat sixteen Colossi, each ranging in size and shape, by climbing up and attacking their weak points (for mas… no, I won’t go there). So, the game is essentially sixteen boss battles in a row. And what a set of battles they were! Most games would be lucky if they had two or three great boss battles but the vast majority were great here. Most were incredibly well designed, so that they were as much a puzzle as they were an action experience. Many of these will long live on in memories of those who encountered them.

To top if off, the Colossi not only were great to figure out, but looked phenomenal as well. For a PS2 game, the level of scope and detail was almost beyond comprehension. Sure it was a little grey and dull, but that added to the ambience and feeling of loneliness. To top it off, the orchestrated soundtrack was one of the musical highlights of the last generation.



So with so many awesome things, what could possibly have been wrong?

Am I doing it wrong?

I’m actually quite glad that Shadow of the Colossus doesn’t bog you down with things like tutorials, but a mention of this feature would have helped. A lot. To be honest, I haven’t read the game manual, as my original copy was a manual-less promo. So this might be in the manual for all I know. However, I played through the entire game (twice!) and it wasn’t until I read through a forum casually one day that I found you could collect fruits and lizards to top up your health and stamina…

Why didn’t the game tell me about this? I ran across some of these suckers and thought nothing of them. Oops. But seriously, would anyone have figured this out by themselves? After all, you’re only meant to be slaying Colossi, where was the memo about fruits and lizards? Even if I had the manual, I probably wouldn’t have read it! The reason I hate this is because some extra health and stamina would have really, really helped. I can't remember how many times I just didn't manage to hold on...

OK, maybe that’s not so bad. But there are some things that annoyed me even more.

When art supercedes gameplay

The debate surrounding gaming and art is one for another day, but I tend to subscribe to Hideo Kojima’s theory:

"The thing is, art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art. If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, it's art. But videogames aren't trying to capture one person. A videogame should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that videogame. It's something of a service. It's not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that videogame is an artistic style, a form of art."

And for me, it’s all in the gameplay. Unfortunately, while Shadow of the Colossus is infinitely more playable that its spiritual predecessor, Ico, both titles prove that while Fumito Ueda and Team ICO are quite excellent artists, their game development is not up to the same lofty standards. In short, the thing that I hate about Shadow of the Colossus is that gameplay is sacrificed for the sake of the art.

Case in point: Agro. It seems that I’m one of the only people who played this game to actually be glad when this stubborn donkey fell to his (admittedly) untimely end. WHAT? Some may ask. Come on just because your horsey was nicely animated and was all the fuss about being your only companion or whatever, doesn’t excuse it from getting stuck on pebbles. Seriously, it’s almost as if the graduate Arts student was given the job of programming the horse. I ran out of fingers and toes counting how many times I was galloping across the countryside only to be ground to a screeching holt by a frickin’ pebble! Geeze.

The horse also leads to my other grievance. Ok, so you can do some truly amazing things. Like the Colossus that searches for you when you’re in the cave and you have to jump on its beard when it bends down. Brilliant idea. Terrible execution. You don’t miss the jump eighteen times because you’re not skilled, but because the camera and mechanics aren’t up to scratch. If failure is my fault, I can deal with it. But not when the game is at fault. Agro-mule is guilty here as well. Even though some of my favourite Colossi involved the horse, damn it was a pain in the arse to execute what I wanted to do sometimes.



However, this isn’t just a matter of art. Some may argue that the direction taken makes the game more realistic and immersive. Huh? This is a game about slaying giant stone monsters, realism is redundant! And I don’t know when developers will figure out that the more realistic you try to make a game, the stupider it looks when it doesn’t come off, a trend that is disturbingly prevalent nowaydays. Quite frankly, Shadow of the Colossus would have been a true gaming masterpiece in my eyes if it didn’t focus so much on its appearance and more on making the game even more playable. For me, gameplay will always be king. No matter how much artsy-fartsy dross, pretty lights or ‘realism’ you cover a game with, unless it’s got the gameplay foundations to back it up, art and emotional attachment will not work for me. Maybe I’m just cynical, but it takes more than a pretty picture to get me waxing lyrical.

The last thing that really bugs me is the reactions that this game seemed to elicit, especially in the media. The whole “Oh my, I just killed this wonderful and mythical creature that was part of the land” grew really thin. Not just in the statement, but the fact that so many seemed to sheepishly follow this as fact. What happened to the good ol’ bravado and back-slapping that is meant to come from defeating the boss? Oh well, to each his own.

While the game’s style and art direction are awesome and its ambitions are great for kicking other developers into action, I really would have loved to see this game on the PS3. Let’s face it, Shadow of the Colossus almost pushes the PS2 to breaking point, and for anyone who has played Lost Planet and fought the moth and worm, they’ll surely testify to this. Maybe The Last Guardian will help make up for it.

Well, that was fun. A sensuous massage would have been my preferrable method of anger outlet, but this will do for now. While Denny or Adam will be back next week, I can assure you that more controversial fun isn't too far away...

Related Shadow of the Colossus Content

Shadow of the Colossus and ICO HD Confirmed?
11 Sep, 2010 Have our dreams been answered?
Shadow of the Colossus goes Hollywood
08 Apr, 2009 Heading to the big screen.
Shadow of the Colossus composer to perform in Sydney
10 Dec, 2007 With the artists from the Eminence orchestra.
14 Comments
2 years ago
At the time of release, Shadow certainly received its fair share of criticism for many of the reasons you point out. I personally found the camera really annoying and some slowdown worked to kill the experience for me. While they are very good games, Ico and Shadow just aren't that special to me...I found frustration was equal to the innovation.

Shadow also had heavy product placement in the movie Reign Over Me...I'm not sure that is a reason to hate it though. icon_smile.gif
2 years ago
I want to plus this article so hard.
2 years ago
If Jeremy wasn't my fearless leader, I would cry 'BLASPHEMY!'

Oops, looks like I just did. I found Shadow to be superb from beginning to end. Imperfect, sure, but fascinating and engaging in so many ways.

Always happy to sample another's point of view, though!
2 years ago
A lot of contradicting statements here. You arguments don't seem to support your conclusions at all. Apologies for lengthy quotes.
Quote
In short, the thing that I hate about Shadow of the Colossus is that gameplay is sacrificed for the sake of the art.

Case in point: Agro. It seems that I’m one of the only people who played this game to actually be glad when this stubborn donkey fell to his (admittedly) untimely end. WHAT? Some may ask. Come on just because your horsey was nicely animated and was all the fuss about being your only companion or whatever, doesn’t excuse it from getting stuck on pebbles. Seriously, it’s almost as if the graduate Arts student was given the job of programming the horse. I ran out of fingers and toes counting how many times I was galloping across the countryside only to be ground to a screeching holt by a frickin’ pebble! Geeze.
If the horse is getting stuck on pebbles, that isn't art over gameplay, that's just a bug. In any case, I don't recall that ever happening so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Quote
The horse also leads to my other grievance. Ok, so you can do some truly amazing things. Like the Colossus that searches for you when you’re in the cave and you have to jump on its beard when it bends down. Brilliant idea. Terrible execution. You don’t miss the jump eighteen times because you’re not skilled, but because the camera and mechanics aren’t up to scratch. If failure is my fault, I can deal with it. But not when the game is at fault. Agro-mule is guilty here as well. Even though some of my favourite Colossi involved the horse, damn it was a pain in the arse to execute what I wanted to do sometimes.
Again, this isn't an art over gameplay problem. Camera angle is a problem that plagues most 3d platformers and is definitely a valid criticism. If you're suggesting they should have removed this whole puzzle completely because sometimes the camera is off, then I totally disagree. The problem wasn't nearly as bad as that if I recall correctly.
Quote
However, this isn’t just a matter of art. Some may argue that the direction taken makes the game more realistic and immersive. Huh? This is a game about slaying giant stone monsters, realism is redundant!
One of the things that makes the game is the impressive physics. A person will intuitively know how their character will behave when standing on a part of the colossus and the colossus tilts a certain way. Realism is paramount in these situations and the game pulls it off superbly.

Hence the horse behaves exactly how you would intuitively expect it to behave. It doesn't have a gas pedal, you're giving it commands so it takes a seconds to get moving as you'd expect. If it behaved like a strafing go-kart it would make the game easier but much less immersive and enjoyable.
Quote
And I don’t know when developers will figure out that the more realistic you try to make a game, the stupider it looks when it doesn’t come off, a trend that is disturbingly prevalent nowaydays.
I agree with this statement in general, but it doesn't apply to this game because the developers actually succeeded in pulling off the realism well. From this article it seems to me that you agree.
Quote
Quite frankly, Shadow of the Colossus would have been a true gaming masterpiece in my eyes if it didn’t focus so much on its appearance and more on making the game even more playable. For me, gameplay will always be king. No matter how much artsy-fartsy dross, pretty lights or ‘realism’ you cover a game with, unless it’s got the gameplay foundations to back it up, art and emotional attachment will not work for me. Maybe I’m just cynical, but it takes more than a pretty picture to get me waxing lyrical.
I'm still lost as to where gameplay was sacrificed for art in this game, your examples didn't have anything to do with it. Maybe you can clarify.
2 years ago
Oh Jeremy, I think I'm in love with you. icon_razz.gif

Brilliant. Absolutly brilliant. Now, if only someone would do a Love to Hate on BioShock. icon_razz.gif
2 years ago
^Since you probably don't look like Megan Fox... I'll take that as platonic and brotherly icon_wink.gif And your wish might might come true as well...
2 years ago
I absolutely loved Shadow of the Colossus, however I have never heard any of the game's fans claim that it was flawless. I can actually agree with you on some of your criticisms, however the good things about the game heavily outnumbered the bad for me.

First of all, I also had no idea that eating Lizards increased your health (it isn't mentioned in the manual either). I ended up figuring it out on my own on my second play-through, but I wasn't particularly annoyed by it, it only meant that it made the game harder, which I like. It would have been nice to have been told this, however this is a very minimal gripe and I overlooked it.

I never experienced Agro getting caught on pebbles. I assume you are referring to when he fails to run off an extremely small ledge in the ground? This is the closest thing that I experienced to what you described, and yes, it was annoying, but again, nothing game-breaking.

As for the games-as-art criticism. In no way do I find the gameplay sacrificed for the sake of being artistic. The game could have been tweaked to control better, but only really while riding Agro. When fighting a Colossi on foot I had absolutely no problems. The camera has issues, but it never actually bothered me, I would just adjust it every so often.

Finally, the “Oh my, I just killed this wonderful and mythical creature that was part of the land” statement was heard so often because it was true. Unlike other game bosses, the Colossi were hardly "evil" and I genuinely felt guilty when I stabbed the sword into their heads and they started whimpering in pain. The soundtrack in the game is phenomenal and really contributed to this sense of sadness as the dead giant crumpled in a heap on the ground.

While I can see the flaws you mentioned, I don't think that any of them are anywhere near irritating to the point where it detracts from the experience. Shadow of the Colossus isn't perfect by any means, but it's far closer to it than most other games.
2 years ago
You know, I was going to do a nice long post, but Macka saved me the trouble. I pretty much agree with you on everything.

It has its flaws, but the experience is so enthralling and the atmosphere and mood so thick, you completely forget about the flaws and focus on the masterpiece before you. I was the same with Ico as well.
2 years ago
lol at the argo jibe. not that i could find it now, but apparently the designers deliberately made argo unresponsive to your controls, to give him a kind of stubbornness. i can see the intent, but it clearly backfired massively by making traversing the map just the little bit more tedious.

although when it came to the camera, there's no excuses there. downright awful.

then again, i'm happy to overlook these failings. sometimes the strengths of a game really do outshine their design flaws. see just about every resident evil game and killer7 as shining examples of this.
2 years ago
It's a game I love despite all the obvious flaws.

For me the biggest one was that it got repetitive, there were really about four types of colossi, and the change was simply how you got onto them. For all the 'it's like the good bits of Zelda' comments, Most Zeldas have more variety in their boss fights. And they also have far more content on top of that (full overworld, towns, side quests, dungeons etc as well as epic boss fights).

While parts were spectacular, it was also quite ugly sometimes, the overworld was often a shimmering, colour banded, muddy PS1-like 8-bit textured mess. The developers got greedy and overstretched the PS2 hardware.

But it's a game that sticks with you. And I really liked the morally ambiguous story.
2 years ago
I tried playing it a couple of months ago. I got about 7 colossi in and stopped.

I just really didn't like it. I've heard so many people say "bububu Agro controls like a real horse because you're controlling the reins, not the horse!"

I. Don't. Care. It still controls like crap.

I also didn't like Ico either, so I think I'm a heathen. Maybe between Ico, SotC and their new game, they'll finally making something with enough content to be considered a full game.
2 years ago
legend166 wrote
Maybe between Ico, SotC and their new game, they'll finally making something with enough content to be considered a full game.
It's fair enough that you didn't like it, but you can't claim that the content wasn't there. The game was at least 12 hours long, which is longer than a lot of games released in this gen.
2 years ago
SotC is probably the most memorable gaming experience I've ever had, but I don't subscribe to the idea that it is anything like art. It's close to a miracle for video-games, but it is, and always will be, just a game.

roger ebert (a kinda famous film critic) once wrote that he is prepared to believe that video-games can be visually wonderful, beautiful, express a range of subtle emotions, etc, but that fundamental structural elements of the medium prevent it from reaching the stature of art, namely because of player input. In his opinion, art (let's just say art as in film, poetry, literature, fine art, sculpture, etc) is something defined by "authorial control", something which the artists shapes in a specific way in order to incur a reaction in those who experience it. All the control in video-games is handed over to the player, meaning that the player can subvert what most of the experience is meant to be about.

For example, I could turn on shadow of the colossus, but only run around in circles for the duration of my play, and then turn off the console. Essentially, it's a full game of sotc.

But yeah, I'm really super interested in the idea of games becoming art, or at least I'm interested in that challenge. Jeremey, you should look into the work of jason roher (passage, maybe) for your next piece. There's some other good stuff on the net, too.

But SotC is terribly beautiful, yes.
2 years ago
I thought Agro controlled fine after a minute or two of getting used to him. I would have liked the camera to sit a bit higher while riding him though - I was always steering with the left stick while having my thumb pushing down slightly on the right all the time just to shift the camera to a position where I could actually see where I was going. I think I only got stopped by a pebble two or three times, and a halt or two on cliff ledges that I thought he'd be able to jump down.

I would have actually liked to have seen Agro used more. I haven't played in ages, but I only remember needing Agro for maybe 3 different battles? The rest of the time it made more sense to do it on foot.

The emotional tones worked well for me: the feeling of guilt, losing Agro, the lonely feeling of the landscape.

My problems with it:
- camera
- water battles were a bit slow and boring
- the hints about weakspots are great, but stop continually repeating them when it's obvious (to me) that I'm trying to do exactly that but I keep falling off and need 5 minutes to climb or swim to the damn thing again.
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  Pre-order or buy:
    PALGN recommends: www.Play-Asia.com

Australian Release Date:
  16/02/2006 (Released)
Standard Retail Price:
  $99.95 AU
Publisher:
  Sony Computer Entertainment
Genre:
  Action Adventure
Year Made:
  2006

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