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Chris Leigh
02 Nov, 2005

The Greatest 100 Games Ever: 80-61

PALGN Feature | Our countdown continues as we cover positions 80-61.
If you joined us a couple of days ago for our coverage of the games ranked in positions 100-81, then welcome back. If you didn't, then we suggest you go and catch up here. Go on. Read it all. We don't write these things for our health, you know.

Back? Good. If you're still wondering what's going on, then here's the gist: a long, long time ago somewhere in the misty depths of time (first week of October), we asked you lot what you regarded as the finest videogames ever published. You responded in your hundreds; possibly because you cared about voicing your opinions on this crucial matter, though we suspect the free game we'll be giving to three of you at the end of this may have something to do with it. Which brings us to where we are today, when we'll be covering the games that managed to grab a spot between positions 80 and 61. So, without further ado...


80
Counter Strike
PC, 2000
D: Valve Software | P: Vivendi Universal
119 points

With over 4.5 billion minutes of playing time under it's belt each month, Counter Strike has maintained it's unwavering status as the world's favourite online first-person shooter in history since it first appeared in early-2000, and it hardly looks like relinquishing its crown any time soon.

No other team-based shoot-'em-up available on the PC has had even a sniff at toppling it, and this is largely thanks to the fact that Counter Strike remains supremely rewarding and balanced, with maps and an arsenal of weapons that have been honed to near-perfection over the last five years through regular updated versions. Yes, the cheating sods you find online can mar things slightly, and don't get us started on Valve's inept content-delivery platform, Steam. But as an online experience, Counter Strike is comfortably ahead of the competition, and with good reason.


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79
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
GameCube, 2004
D: Retro Studios | P: Nintendo
120 points

Exploration-based gameplay, a branching and positively labyrinthine world, that behind-the-visor view: in many ways, Metroid Prime was like a dash of ice-cold water across the face of a tired FPS genre, and it's no surpise that it left such an indent on the collective imaginations of those who played it. The sequel continues the stylish work of the first game, fashioning an adventure that remains one of the finest console shooters of the last decade.

The bosses are as earth-shakingly impressive as you'd expect, the visors and weaponry are as dazzling as ever, and the decision to set the game in two versions of the planet Aether (a 'light' version and a 'dark' version, as seen in another Nintendo masterpiece, Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past) is quite inspired, leading to a game that demands greater cerebal input than many of it's peers in the same genre. As the GameCube nears the end of its somewhat abbreviated lifespan, there's few games we could recommend as strongly as Echoes.


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78
Golden Sun
Game Boy Advance, 2001
D: Camelot | P: Nintendo
121 points

The Game Boy Advance was released with some high expectations and, whilst there were undoubtedly a couple of standout titles in the first year, it's unlikely any were quite as polished as Golden Sun. Trading in Mario’s racquets and clubs, developer Camelot created what could be considered an almost perfect handheld RPG. Even though it was released during the GBA’s first year, it remains easily one of the best-looking and sounding titles on the system, with luscious 2D and 3D graphics that positively burst with artistic style and emotive music.

There's no other GBA game that can match the amazing summons and battles effects, and the battles not only look superb, but are fast and furious, making almost every encounter more exciting than the last. The bosses are satisfyingly huge and challenging, whilst the 'Djinn' system adds an element of depth and customisation to both battles and character development, whilst away from battle it contributes towards puzzles that would have otherwise been generic at best. Admittedly there's a slight lack of originality, and the characters love to talk a little too much, but we doubt anyone will forget the feeling of reaching the end and realising that only half the game had been completed. Going through it again is hardly a chore though, for Golden Sun is an experience that has yet to be replicated on the GBA. -- Jeremy Jastrzab


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77
Fire Emblem
Game Boy Advance, 2003
D: Intelligent Systems | P: Nintendo
122 points

It often seems as though Intelligent Systems can do no wrong nowadays, with its series of Fire Emblem games attracting almost as much praise as the justly vaunted Advance Wars franchise. It's true to say that the two series share traits, yet dismissing Fire Emblem merely as a medieval, fantasy version Advance Wars would be myopic.

Fire Emblem is its own beast, skilfully weaving RPG and adventure elements into the superb Advance Wars formula and containing a narrative and characters that are far deeper than anything the Advance Wars games have produced. We'll confess that the multiplayer is surprisingly shaky for an Intelligent Systems game, but the singleplayer alone is likely to grip anyone with the sense to pick the game up.


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76
Diablo II
PC, 2000
D: Blizzard North | P: Blizzard Entertainment
123 points

Blizzard North's follow-up to 1996's Diablo remains one of the best examples of how to execute the perfect videogame sequel, filling in the cracks left by the first game and adding content by the bucketload. The result is a game three or four times the size of the original, and a title with one of the best RPG interfaces ever seen, beautifully constructed skill and class systems, and that familiar Blizzard spit and polish.

The graphics are looking a little frayed around the edges nowadays (and weren't anything to shout about upon the release of the game), but this doesn't prevent Diablo II being one of the most time-consuming exercises you can carry out with a PC. Writing this Top 100 being the other.


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75
Civilisation III
PC, 2001
D: Firaxis | P: Infogrames
124 points

If you could bottle the elusive ingredient that helps make Civilisation III so moreishly addictive, we suspect a good few developers out there would be willing to cough up. Not that this does anything drastically different to the excellent Civilisation II, of course; just as in that game, here you begin with a single group of settlers in the year 4000 BC, from when you'll have to explore your world, establish new cities, build civic improvements and great wonders, negotiate with rivals for limited space and resources, wage war against your enemies, research new technologies and much more in the interest of expanding your fledgling race into a mighty empire.

But the modifications added to the Civ II equation result in a more balanced game which, when combined with the epic scale of the title (something only the Age of Empires games have ever come close to emulating), make this the kind of title that can suck up entire days, during which trivial issues such as eating, sleeping and drinking are all but forgotten about.


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74
Advance Wars
Game Boy Advance, 2001
D: Intelligent Systems | P: Nintendo
125 points

Intelligent System's supreme turn-based strategy title is a lesson in impeccable game design, striking a wonderful balance in the units it makes available to players, the layout of each map, and the capabilities of each CO. The singleplayer game doesn't outstay it's welcome, while the multiplayer is as absorbing as gaming gets. Even the tutorial mode - so often a chore in most other games - is entertaining.

Later Advance Wars games would try and expand on the brilliant formula that made this so indispensable, but it's this first GBA game in the series that remains the most well-rounded. It's certainly one of the finest, deepest games to ever grace a handheld console, and heck, we'll say it: it's probably the best game on the Game Boy Advance.


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73
Phantasy Star Online
Dreamcast, 2001
D: Sonic Team | P: Sega
127 points

Sega's gamble to ship the Dreamcast with a built-in modem was undoubtedly a significant step forwards for the game industry, yet ironically it wasn't until the platform began to approach it's twilight years that it finally found an online killer app to call it's own. Well before Xbox Live entered the arena, Phantasy Star Online was the first online RPG for the living room crowd. Whereas it's singleplayer was mediocre at best, when taken online it became a glorious, memorable and hugely sociable experience.

On paper, it's appeal (not to mention it's position here) is still perhaps slightly curious - this was, after all, a game with only four levels to speak of, as well as only three classes of character to choose your avatar from (a piffling number compared to most recent online RPGs). But the game's real hook was undoubtedly human interaction, the teamwork needed to conquer the missions that you were set, and the strong sense of camaraderie and community that seemed to exist in every corner of Ragol.


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72
Lemmings
Amiga, 1990
D: DMA Design | P: Psygnosis
128 points

DMA Design's unique, mammal-based puzzler was universally hailed as the best game of 1990, proving a magnet for various 'Game of the Year' awards and accolades. Not bad for a concept that was dreamed up during a single lunchtime by DMA designer Mike Dailly, who was creating an animation in order to prove how small a character could be on screen.

The concept was straightforward enough, with the player having to guide a group of up to 100 lemmings home while avoiding various hazards, all by giving individual lemmings various commands. It was a formula that would eventually see the game and it's myriad sequels sell 20 million copies on 21 different systems. And as for DMA? Well, they went on to make a little game known as Grand Theft Auto.


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71
Call of Duty
PC, 2003
D: Infinity Ward | P: Activision
130 points

World War II remains the period of history most commonly mined by developers looking for inspiration, though few games can claim to have conveyed the different perspectives of the war as competently as Call of Duty. Straddling a period of two and a half years between August 1942 and April 1945, the game places players in three different roles: as an American GI, a British Paratrooper, and a Russian conscript. This is a promising start, for whereas the vast majority of WWII-themed titles are happy to focus solely (yet again) on the Allies vs. Axis slant, Call of Duty is confident and ambitious enough to portray events from more varied viewpoints.

Despite the aging technology that underpins the game, this is a hugely cinematic experience, with memorable scripted events and set-pieces littering the game from start to finish. The impressive level of immersion is helped further by some of the best buddy AI ever seen in any game or genre, as well as the presence of dozens of soldiers on screen at once. Add in a superb array of modes and maps, a balanced range of weaponry and laboriously detailed environments, and you're left with the best WWII game that money can buy. And considering the number of the bloody things, that's a fairly impressive feat.


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70
Unreal Tournament
PC, 1999
D: Epic Games | P: GT Interactive
132 points

Launched in direct competition to id's Quake III: Arena, Unreal Tournament scored a critical triumph over it's prettier rival thanks to massively superior bot AI, a singleplayer game that contributed significantly to the game's longevity, and secondary functions for weapons, a feature that added a layer of strategy to what otherwise would have been a fairly vanilla combat experience.

Perhaps it's biggest draw, however, was the multiplayer game. Not only was this aspect of the title bombarded with 'Game of the Year' accolades, but the ease with which players could create and release mods to the core game was a key factor in the appeal of the title, at least until Counter Strike joined the fray the following year.


...


69
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
Game Boy, 1993
D: Nintendo | P: Nintendo
133 points

The first game of the Zelda series to be set outside Hyrule (and with neither Ganon or the Triforce in sight) may not be quite as fondly remembered as A Link to the Past, but it remains the best-selling handheld Zelda game ever. The story sees Link shipwrecked on the island of Koholint and, after being rescued by a kind man named Tarin and his daughter Marin (two names that would feature prominently in future Zeldas, though this was their first appearance), our hero sets out to find a way home.

While the storyline is rather different from what could normally be expected of a Zelda title, other parts of the game are comfortingly familiar. There's the same brilliant dungeon design, and the same memorable boss sequences. Oh, and it was the first Zelda game to feature fishing and cuccos. Need we say more?


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68
System Shock 2
PC, 1999
D: Irrational Games/Looking Glass | P: Electronic Arts
134 points

This eerie, unnerving game combined a first-person perspective with a strong RPG flavour, and to terrific effect. As a game in which exploration was a necessity rather than an option, System Shock 2 managed to set a new standard for first-person perspective games, and came packed to the gills with hoards of extras on every level to be discovered by the player when they weren't disposing of The Many.

...


67
Katamari Damacy
PlayStation 2, 2003
D: Namco | P: Namco
135 points

Namco's esoteric gem never actually saw a PAL release (it's sequel, We Love Katamari, is getting a PAL release in early-2006), but quickly became a firm favourite with importers. Played to what is quite possibly the most off-the-wall, demented soundtrack of the last five years, Katamari Damacy places players in the tiny shoes of the Prince, the diminuitive, proud owner of a 'katamari'; essentially a sticky ball that can pick up any object it rolls over. The more objects you pick up, the bigger your katamari gets, allowing it to pick up sequentially larger objects.

Cue much rolling about primary-coloured, vibrant cartoony environments as you attempt to pick up more and more objects, and thus expand your katamari as much and as quickly as possible. Finely-tuned time limits and a charming storyline complete the spell. Absolutely mental, but guaranteed to leave every person who tries it grinning like an idiot.


...


66
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
GameCube, 2002
D: Silicon Knights | P: Nintendo
136 points

So much content in survival horror games can seem clichéd and humdrum that it can be difficult to stand out from the crowd. Eternal Darkness stands out like the brightest of beacons however, a wildly original and genuinely frightening slice of horror gaming, and a title with lashings of innovative ideas. Best of these is the 'sanity meter' that accompanies players as they make their way through the game with one of the dozen characters on offer. The more undead you come across, the more your unfortunate on-screen character loses their mental grip on reality (performing finishing moves on the undead is the only way of restoring your mental health), and things start to happen. So you guide them into a room, and their head falls off. Seconds later, you're walking back into the same room, head and shoulders attached. Enter another area and suddenly you're completely unarmed. You go out, and come in again. Your weapons are there again. Were they there all along though?

There's plenty more of these moments of madness, but it's not just this that makes the game special - for a start, it has possibly the best combat system ever seen in a survival horror title (maybe even better than the stellar Resident Evil 4), the voice acting is in a class of its own, and the story is intelligently told, intricately linking together as the game unfolds. All in all, an under-appreciated jewel of a game, and a must-own for any discerning GameCube owner.


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65
Doom
PC, 1993
D: id Software | P: id Software
137 points

Even before it was shipped, John Carmack was unhappy with the 3D engine used in Wolfenstein 3D, the revolutionary 1992 first-person shooter he co-developed with John Romero. His reaction was to develop Doom, a game that surely ranks as one of the most crucial landmarks in gaming. This new shooter boasted far more advanced technology, allowing Carmack and his team to include floors and ceilings of varying heights, add lighting changes and texture-mapped environments, and allowing walls to be placed at any angle.

The rest, as they say, is history, with the name Doom being settled upon just days before development was complete (originally the game was set to be called 'They're Green and Pissed'). By 1995, two years after it's release, Doom had been downloaded by an estimated 10 million people, it's place in the annals of videogame history assured.


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64
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Xbox, 2003
D: Bioware | P: LucasArts
138 points

The best Star Wars game ever? Certainly, it's not such a far-fetched possibility. Love or hate Star Wars - and your writer is far from a great fan, dear reader - Knights of the Old Republic made you care. It achieved this through a plot and narrative that was positively Nabokovian compared to any other RPG of the last five years, and a branching, open-ended story that could have followed countless routes, depending on how you played the game.

Then there's the voice acting - whereas most games feature voice work that sounds like it was carried out by nervous sixth form drama students, the actors behind the voices in KOTOR have done a wonderful job. The whole experience meant that replaying Star Wars: KOTOR wasn’t an option, but a priority. Even on the fourth or fifth run through, the game was different enough to be worth the effort. Since it's release two years ago, there arguably hasn't been a better console RPG released.


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63
Rez
Dreamcast, 2001
D: United Game Artists | P: Sega
139 points

Tetsuya Mizuguchi's dazzling, Kandinsky-influenced abstract masterpiece may not have excelled commercially, but it's impact on the gaming community remains undiminished. Indeed, Rez stood for everything that gamers admired most about Sega's willingness to innovate; this was a risky, original and defiant gesture to an industry run by suits and spreadsheets.

From the fourth level's jaw-dropping 'Running Man' boss to the brilliance of the obscure techno soundtrack, here was a game that never stopped in it's bid to surprise players. It was all rounded off by Area 5, an eighteen-minute masterpiece of a level and a stunning coup de grâce to one of the Dreamcast's most unique, unforgettable offerings.


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62
Tales of Symphonia
GameCube, 2004
D: Namco Tales Studio | P: Namco
140 points

Tales of Symphonia was the first game from the Tales series to make it to PAL shores. A long-running importer favourite, the series worked it’s way through the gaming underbelly, gathering a cult status that few games could match. When Tales of Symphonia was finally released, everyone had the opportunity to experience what made this series so popular. As an RPG, it could more than hold it's own, with a deep storyline, interesting and well-developed characters, plenty of quests and side quests, multiple endings, and a wide range of quirks and oddities from town to town.

However, it's appearance here can largely be attributed to one of the best action-RPG battle systems ever constructed. The confusingly-named Multi-line, Liner-Motion Battle system was one of the deepest (yet most accessible and surprisingly efficient) ways to lay waste into hordes of enemies. The game grants the player total control over several unique characters, and the chaos and mayhem that ensues (lasting anywhere between two seconds to a minute) is an absolute spectacle. Throw in some of the most hectic, absorbing and challenging boss battles, and you've got a winning formula. -- Jeremy Jastzrab


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61
Final Fantasy VI
SNES, 1994
D: Square | P: Square
143 points

Originally released in America as Final Fantasy III (since II, III and V had been skipped), Final Fantasy VI told the story of a resistance group known as the Returners, who were fighting an evil Empire led by Emperor Gestahl and his underling General Kefka. The only hope for the Returners is to enlist the help of magical beings called Espers, who had fought a war against the humans thousands of years ago, but have now retreated to another dimension. But when Kefka betrays the Emperor and uses the power of the Espers to become ruler himself, all hope seems lost. It is now up to the remaining Returners to save both worlds from Kefka's god-like rule.

What made Square's game so great was the perfect balance of characters, story, graphics, music and gameplay to create a single piece of art. Unforgettable characters like Terra the half Esper slave girl, and Cyan the brave knight after revenge, make the plight of the Returners seem real and important. The graphics and music were amazing for the time, and beautifully captured the worlds of Gestahl's technology and the Esper's magic perfectly, while the battle system is simpler but more active than in previous games, keeping you moving and making decisions rather then just waiting for the time bars to fill up. Rarely do all elements of a game come together so well, and as far as RPGs go, Final Fantasy VI is up there with the best of the best. -- David Low


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_______________________________________________


And that's that for now. We'll be revealing positions 60-41 in the next couple of days but, until then, tell us what you thought of the choices here in the forums, or for a quick glance at what's made our list so far, see below:

100...Final Fantasy XI [90]
099...Soul Calibur 2 [93]
098...NiGHTS Into Dreams [94]
097...Disgaea: Hours of Darkness [95]
096...WipEout 2097 [99]
095...The Sims [100]
094...Silent Hill 2 [103]
093...Quake II [105]
092...F-Zero GX [106]
091...Advance Wars: Dual Strike [107]
=89...Super Smash Bros. [108]
=89...Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge [108]
088...Gran Turismo 3 [109]
087...God of War [110]
086...Age of Empires 2 [111]
085...Warcraft III [112]
084...Super Mario Sunshine [114]
083...Star Wars Battlefront [115]
082...Conker's Bad Fur Day [116]
081...Chrono Cross [117]
080...Counter Strike [119]
079...Metroid Prime 2: Echoes [120]
078...Golden Sun [121]
077...Fire Emblem [122]
076...Diablo II [123]
075...Civilisation III [124]
074...Advance Wars [125]
073...Phantasy Star Online [127]
072...Lemmings [128]
071...Call of Duty [130]
070...Unreal Tournament [132]
069...The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening [133]
068...System Shock 2 [134]
067...Katamari Damacy [135]
066...Eternal Darkness [136]
065...Doom [137]
064...Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic [138]
063...Rez [139]
062...Tales of Symphonia [140]
061...Final Fantasy VI [143]

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38 Comments
6 years ago
Now that's a lineup of games I wouldn't be ashamed to own. Always sad to see incredible classics (LoZ:LA and Doom to name two) so low.

Though I'm pretty sure none of those appeared in my top ten. icon_smile.gif
6 years ago
Wow - this list is shaping up to be really good. Well done PALGN readers! (and, y'know, Chris for putting it together).
6 years ago
Warcraft 3>Diablo 2
6 years ago
Imagine a competition where all of these games were given away, or just increments from the list (eg top 10 or 20). icon_wink.gif
6 years ago
This list is pretty awesome, while I don't know if I agree with some of the games voted for by others, I think it just shows the diversity of PALGN readers. I love the comments, they rock.

Damn now I need to play through Link's Awakening again!
6 years ago
FF6 scored pretty low, not too many "ff6 iz teh best FF EVAR" people here it seems.

Katamari Damacy deserves better, but still did damn good in a PAL game poll for a game that never got released in PAL.
6 years ago
Pfft warcraft 3 sucks.not to mention you cant really compare ti to diablo anyway, rts vs hack 'n' slash....

Man this list, this list.........wow........its different ill give ya that!
6 years ago
Jibbs wrote
Pfft warcraft 3 sucks.not to mention you cant really compare ti to diablo anyway, rts vs hack 'n' slash....

Man this list, this list.........wow........its different ill give ya that!
By sucks I think you mean 'is awesome'.

It's a little concerning to see so many games that should really place higher. I don't like where this is going :S
6 years ago
Eternal Darkness is still my favourite game this gen. So it figured in my top ten.

KOTOR is very good as well.

Good lineup of titles!
6 years ago
'I don't like where this is going :S'

A couple in the next 20 are really gonna wind people up. icon_lol.gif
6 years ago
heh, awesome icon_smile.gif

i'm trying to think of some games i hate that might be there...
6 years ago
Some real jewels of a game have shown up in this update, which is sort of sad considering it's still in the lower half of the list of 100. That can only mean the next bunch must be pure brilliance... right?

Eternal Darkness is without a doubt one of the best gaming experiences on the Gamecube. Those sanity effects are too good to miss. The one that really wound me up was the "Thank you for playing Eternal Darkness. Buy and play the full version on etc etc. I so totally fell for that, even so much as to curse very loudly at the EB rep that sold this 'demo version' to me. When the screen flashed back into the game, I sat there staring at the screen for a good minute trying to figure out what the heck just happened. When I finally figured it out I burst out laughing, and I instantly fell in love with the game. It got me good on a couple of other occasions too. This game plays you more than you play it. I love it!

I can see how games like Call of Duty could make people's top ten lists. It did everthing it set out to do very well, although it does seem a little out of place amongst all the old classics. That doesn't mean that newer games don't deserve to be up here however. I hope everyone who sees new games in the list don't automatically reject them as stupid and uneducated choices. They have every right to be on here as any retro game, so long as they were great that is...

None of my nominated games made this update, although I think I had Eternal Darkness listed... I can't remember.
6 years ago
Spot the error in the Metroid Prime 2 screenshot

Quote
(Unless you sequence break, there is no damn way you fight Amorbis with the damn Annihilator Beam).
6 years ago
Jibbs wrote
Pfft warcraft 3 sucks.not to mention you cant really compare ti to diablo anyway, rts vs hack 'n' slash....

Man this list, this list.........wow........its different ill give ya that!
'Sucks' is a pretty strong word to use. To say you don't like a genre I can understand that, but Warcraft 3 did prove itself to be one of the standout RTS titles of it's time. I personally didn't like Diablo II that much, but I can still admit that it was an outstanding game for it's genre and time.

I think this has to be one of the best user-based top 100 I've ever seen. There's a lot of surprises in there, sure, but there are a lot of games that I can definitely agree on being in the list. Maybe not so low, but the games above them definitely deserve their position.
6 years ago
*sigh*

Lets say it was over-rated or over hyped then.Starcraft still rules the roost.
6 years ago
no, let's not.

while StarCraft should probably be considered the better game because it simply redefined RTS games as we know them, no longer do we get 2 armies that are exactly the same except for colour and a unique unit, or building (or at least, no longer should we get RTS games like this) but rather completely different, but equally balanced armies fighting eachother. i don't think WarCraft 3 was in any way over-rated or over-hyped. it was hyped, sure, but personally i think it delivered too, and then some.

from what i've read of the WC3 criticisms, it was the RPG nature of the Hero units that annoyed people so much, i personally think this was a necessary evolution to the genre in order to keep it fresh and interesting.

ultimately i suppose, i prefer WC3 to SC. if for no other case point that i've long ago hung up SC (figuretively speaking) yet i'm still playing WC3.

as always, these are my opinions. something countered by the userpoll i suppose, but that's what these polls are designed for: discussion of opinions.
6 years ago
Here's hoping that Quake III: Arena makes the list since Unreal Tournament got the number seventy spot.
6 years ago
Total Annihilation is still the best 2D RTS ever.
6 years ago
My first game from my top ten appeared at #62, ToS. Great great game.
6 years ago
No what i didnt like about warcraft 3 was the crazy amount of micro-management.Now i know starcraft has its fair share too, actually quite a bit if yoiu wnna go pro with it, but in warcraft 3 its just stupid.Theres spells, and spell cancels, and spell buffs, and auras, and automated spells, and buyable spells, wahhhhhhhh its crazy.Too much **** going everywhere.Its too complicated for its own good.Factor in, as you said, heroes, and diff dmg types and its gets bogged down into a mere game of numbers.

And its by no means no where near as balanced as starcraft.To this day there is still not a single race that is generally accepted to be the strongest, or stronger then another overall.There is always new tactics being devised-not your standard warcraft 3 'rush night elves with footmen in guard stance and obliterate'.

Not to mention that graphics look quite arse like too.I realised concessions had to be made to allow for its commendable nature of being able to be played on a wide variety of systems, but the low poly count especially makes it look more like 'origami-craft' more than anything.

The fact that it copies so much from stacraft, the creep, terran moveable buildings, terran bunkers, buildings that self heal.....list goes on.......shows that starcraft, was, by a serendipitious event or otherwise, the best rts game they or anyone else has ever made.

Starcraft is better.Full stop.But, opinions are opinions eh?Though i do have a few million Koreans on my side icon_wink.gif
6 years ago
Quinsisdos wrote
Spot the error in the Metroid Prime 2 screenshot

Quote
(Unless you sequence break, there is no damn way you fight Amorbis with the damn Annihilator Beam).
Well if you want to be like that, I'd like to point out those Fire Emblem screenshots are actually from Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones. icon_razz.gif

Jibbs wrote
No what i didnt like about warcraft 3 was the crazy amount of micro-management.Now i know starcraft has its fair share too, actually quite a bit if yoiu wnna go pro with it, but in warcraft 3 its just stupid.Theres spells, and spell cancels, and spell buffs, and auras, and automated spells, and buyable spells, wahhhhhhhh its crazy.Too much s--t going everywhere.Its too complicated for its own good.Factor in, as you said, heroes, and diff dmg types and its gets bogged down into a mere game of numbers.
Boo hoo. It's called tactics, and adding depth to units rather than having X health and dealing Y damage. icon_razz.gif If millions of Warcraft 3 players can deal with it, it says more about you than it does the game.

Jibbs wrote
And its by no means no where near as balanced as starcraft.To this day there is still not a single race that is generally accepted to be the strongest, or stronger then another overall.There is always new tactics being devised-not your standard warcraft 3 'rush night elves with footmen in guard stance and obliterate'.
Yes, because in all the balance patches, Blizzard have overlooked that a footman rush will beat all. Except it doesn't, and in fact - sucks.

Jibbs wrote
The fact that it copies so much from stacraft, the creep, terran moveable buildings, terran bunkers, buildings that self heal.....list goes on.......shows that starcraft, was, by a serendipitious event or otherwise, the best rts game they or anyone else has ever made.
How does this make Starcraft the better game?

Jibbs wrote
Starcraft is better.Full stop. But, opinions are opinions eh?
If opinions are opinions, you probably should know your first two sentences are stating something as a fact. icon_wink.gif

Jibbs wrote
Though i do have a few million Koreans on my side icon_wink.gif
The same can be said about not only Warcraft 3, but WoW, Guild Wars and Ragnarok Online. There are many, many Koreans in the world, and they play many, many games. icon_razz.gif

I probably shouldn't have dragged this on, but I couldn't help it really. icon_razz.gif
6 years ago
Ok, ok, lets just all agree to disagree.. (and that cerebral is a bum face and is wrong icon_razz.gif ) ..
6 years ago
By bum face I think you mean 'awesome'.

icon_biggrin.gif
6 years ago
Chris-Leigh wrote
'I don't like where this is going :S'

A couple in the next 20 are really gonna wind people up. icon_lol.gif
If Wind Waker's there, I'll kill you all. icon_razz.gif
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