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Matt Bassos
16 Dec, 2008

Document suggests MS knew about disc scratching

360 News | Lawsuit reveals Microsoft potentially knew about Xbox 360 disc damaging before console launch.
Seattle Tech Report has revealed that an unsealed document in a lawsuit last week suggests Microsoft employees knew Xbox 360 disc drives could scratch game discs, before launching on the market in November 2005.

The fault stems from the drive which is said to be defectively designed by plaintiffs filing ongoing legal cases in the U.S. District Court in Seattle, because tilting or swiveling the video game console can scratch game discs playing inside.

While most of the court declarations are sealed, a newly unsealed motion has uncovered information about Microsoft's recognition of the the disc reorientating while playing in the console.

Hiroo Umeno, a Microsoft program manager, said in a declaration, "This is ... information that we as a team, optical disc drive team, knew about. When we first discovered the problem in September or October (2005), when we got a first report of disc movement, we knew this is what's causing the problem."

The declaration continues that after the Xbox 360 launch, Microsoft sent a team of engineers to stores across the country "to investigate complaints that the Xbox 360 was routinely scratching discs during demonstrations."

The motion also mentions Microsoft determined that the deep gouges or disc scratching was caused with discs becoming "unchucked" and colliding with the drive's optical pickup unit, and that Microsoft considered possible ways to fix the problem but in the end rejected all of them.

Microsoft did eventually institute an Xbox 360 disc replacement program that sends out new discs to customers if their discs are damaged for any reason. The program only applies to Microsoft titles and costs $20 per disc. According to Microsoft employee in the motion more then 55,000 customers have complained about broken discs.

Despite this potentially alarming information A Microsoft spokesman responded to the filing today by saying the disc scratching issue was not unique to the Xbox 360.

"Xbox 360 is designed so that it will not damage a game disc as long as the console is not moved while the disc is spinning," he said. "Too much movement of any game console, not just Xbox 360, can cause scratches on a disc. That's why we put a warning on the face of the disc tray, which the user has to physically remove before the initial use of the system. We also have warnings posted online and in hard copy instruction manuals."

The spokesman also said the 55,000 contacts the company has had represent a tiny percentage of the Xbox 360's in the market.

"While we have had some users contact us with concerns about scratched discs, it is less than one-half of 1% of the total Xbox 360 user base," he said.

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72 Comments
3 years ago
MS made a piece of **** and whats worse is that they knew it all along.

If this was a car company they would be filing for bankruptcy
3 years ago
The difference there is that the "big three" car companies are producing badly-made pieces of crap cars that nobody wants to buy.
3 years ago
waz79 wrote
MS made a piece of **** and whats worse is that they knew it all along.

If this was a car company they would be filing for bankruptcy
Jibbs wrote
Put the pitchforks down, you guys are making this out to be on the same level as the Ford Pinto (scroll to safety issues for the horrible truth)..
Hmm, Ford's still around isn't it?
3 years ago
nikack wrote
Hmm, Ford's still around isn't it?
Well i dk about that, They claim their not needing the bailout cash just yet but give them time.

The irony that japan made hybrids 10 yrs ago to compete with the American electric car interests, that quickly dissapeared after lobbying, is not lost on anyone.
3 years ago
waz79 wrote
nikack wrote
Hmm, Ford's still around isn't it?
Well i dk about that, They claim their not needing the bailout cash just yet but give them time.
So you're evidence that they might be in trouble is that one of the biggest car companies in the world doesn't want a financial bailout

You're logic is flawless....
3 years ago
This particular topic has been discussed at length at our house.
My Partner and i haved owned 3 360's, with the first one bought upon release.

Never have we had a problem with discs scratching, because we READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!! I believe it cleary states (although i am trying to remember from a few years ago) to place your xbox on a secure surface, and not bump or move your console while there is a disc in the drive. I don't even think it says 'while the disc is spinning'.

Like i said, i'm trying to remember and i have been unable to find our originial setup instruction manual, so i may be para-phrasing, but i think my point still stands.

As far as i'm concerned, i don't care that the Wii and PS3 can be thrown from great heights and the games remain in tact, if you are doing things like that with a console you don't deserve to have one.

Harsh, maybe. But in my eyes it's true.

Bottom line, if i am right and in the initial setup instructions it says 'dont move with a disc in the drive' they have tried to prevent scratching from their obviously faulty drive.
3 years ago
denial 23 wrote
This particular topic has been discussed at length at our house.
My Partner and i haved owned 3 360's, with the first one bought upon release.

Never have we had a problem with discs scratching, because we READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!! I believe it cleary states (although i am trying to remember from a few years ago) to place your xbox on a secure surface, and not bump or move your console while there is a disc in the drive. I don't even think it says 'while the disc is spinning'.

Like i said, i'm trying to remember and i have been unable to find our originial setup instruction manual, so i may be para-phrasing, but i think my point still stands.

As far as i'm concerned, i don't care that the Wii and PS3 can be thrown from great heights and the games remain in tact, if you are doing things like that with a console you don't deserve to have one.

Harsh, maybe. But in my eyes it's true.

Bottom line, if i am right and in the initial setup instructions it says 'dont move with a disc in the drive' they have tried to prevent scratching from their obviously faulty drive.
so you defend it even though you say its faulty and no other cd based game system has this problem? i smell a fanboi.

besides when it happened to me i wasnt moving the console around i was sitting with the controller in my hand playing a game. 1 question though why did you need 3 360's?
3 years ago
Quote
1 question though why did you need 3 360's
I also have a ps2, wii and gamecube.
1 360 is mine, one is my partners and one is a spare. We have had RROD on one only, Microsoft refurbished the entire thing.

I'm not denying the fact that the initial drives were obviously crap, i'm just saying majority of the reports i have read have been along the lines of 'it was sitting on a milk crate and i threw my controller at it and it fell'.
If you DON'T follow instructions and do the things the company suggests, you have no claim for suing a major corporation.
If you have, like your example AllSchoolGamer, and this happens to you anyway, you have my sympathies and i think you should be compensated.

I understand accidents happen, i work in insurance, i see accidents all the time. It's people that don't take responsibility for there own mistakes and start suing people left right and centre that annoys me.
3 years ago
The PS2 scratched discs too, the Wii and PS3 are immensely difficult to get them to scratch discs because they've got slot loading drives. There are arms in place that hold the disc securely so it doesn't fly out of the drive like shuriken. Laptops mostly have those crappy tray drives which anchor the disc in with those little ball things, while the 360 has a drive similar to desktops, you don't see people playing dvds and music on the train with one of those do you?
3 years ago
denial 23 wrote
Quote
1 question though why did you need 3 360's
I also have a ps2, wii and gamecube.
1 360 is mine, one is my partners and one is a spare. We have had RROD on one only, Microsoft refurbished the entire thing.

I'm not denying the fact that the initial drives were obviously crap, i'm just saying majority of the reports i have read have been along the lines of 'it was sitting on a milk crate and i threw my controller at it and it fell'.
If you DON'T follow instructions and do the things the company suggests, you have no claim for suing a major corporation.
If you have, like your example AllSchoolGamer, and this happens to you anyway, you have my sympathies and i think you should be compensated.

I understand accidents happen, i work in insurance, i see accidents all the time. It's people that don't take responsibility for there own mistakes and start suing people left right and centre that annoys me.
Yeah thats fair enuff, I see where you are coming from. I also am sick to death of people sueing each other for their own stupid fault. But yeah personally I think I've just had enough with M$..between this and the rrod it makes me think that I should have started with the Ps3 this gen (my wife surprised me with the 360 for fathers day)...but alas M$ do have the bigger library of games and better controlllers. Oh well hopefully they won't be in a rush to be first out the gate for their next 1.
3 years ago
Microsoft knew about this problem, but their No. 1 priority was the 360 being the first Current Gen machine around. They might had thought they could patch it later.
3 years ago
nikack wrote
The PS2 scratched discs too, the Wii and PS3 are immensely difficult to get them to scratch discs because they've got slot loading drives. There are arms in place that hold the disc securely so it doesn't fly out of the drive like shuriken. Laptops mostly have those crappy tray drives which anchor the disc in with those little ball things, while the 360 has a drive similar to desktops, you don't see people playing dvds and music on the train with one of those do you?
Actually, it depends on the laptop. Apple's laptops have had slot-loading drives since the days of the G4 iBooks and PowerBooks.
3 years ago
I do agree with nikack on the PS2 scratches disk. In fact, I had to use my disk scratching repair kit on many of my PS2 games over time because I would have a circular scratch on it (The kit did work though, so no biggy).
3 years ago
Hi, our company fixes scratched xbox360 discs on our commercial disc scratch removal equipment in Sydney as a paid service for video rental stores Australia-wide. We get an almost 100% success rate on xbox 360 discs that have scratches caused by the console being bumped or moved during play.

We are happy to fix any PALGN reader's scratched xbox 360 disc for free! Limit of one disc per person. To take advantage of this offer, visit www.discstation.net.au and fill out the contact form on the `contact us' page, and include the words `palgn reader offer' in the comments section. We'll contact you with shipment details etc from there. regards, Glen.
3 years ago
my head is exploding trying to figure out whether that is advertising /spam or not. He is obviously advertising his company , at the same time its a free offer but. how much is shipping and handling glen
3 years ago
If you remove the manual from the case, it will cost about $1.50 to post the game to us, standard Australia Post, no tracking. We are happy to return post at no charge. If you are prepared to go to the effort of filling in the contact form and posting your scratched game to us, we're happy to complete the repair service free of charge.
3 years ago
denial 23 wrote
Never have we had a problem with discs scratching, because we READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!! I believe it cleary states (although i am trying to remember from a few years ago) to place your xbox on a secure surface, and not bump or move your console while there is a disc in the drive. I don't even think it says 'while the disc is spinning'.
I have picked up 3 different PS2's while games have been running numerous times and not once did they ever scratch a disc.Of course I was VERY cautious when I did pick them up, but that still doesn't change the fact that I did what the manual told me NOT to do.The PS2 manual also tells you not to remove or insert memory cards while a game is running.Which I have done a lot and nothing happened as long as the game wasn't saving at the time.In fact GTA3 would sometimes require me to insert the memory card during play because of a glitch sometimes preventing the game from loading.

Anyway, there's not much point in really worrying about whether Msoft did or did not know about the 360 scratching discs.There's nothing any of us can do besides people who don't own 360's to just not buy one.
3 years ago
^ so bassically you didnt follow what the instructions said however luckily there were no side effects, good job. Thats why some people shouldnt be allowed to buy an xbox 360 then complain
3 years ago
I was just saying that people can't immediately say that those who had their discs scratched didn't look after their console because as I said, I did what the manual told me not to do with PS2 and it NEVER scratched a disc.Therefore with the 360, people can look after the console like it was their loved one and still have their discs scratched.It's not (usually) to do with how well they look after their 360.I looked after my PS2's quite well and still had one break on me twice.

If your comment about people who shouldn't own a 360 then complain about scratched discs was including me, then your comment doesn't fully stand as I DON'T own a 360.
3 years ago
^no, thats completely and utterly different from what you said. what you said was you didnt follow the instructions and there wasnt a problem anyway, then you make some confusing statement about xbox 360's scartching discs in your new post despite not owning one or experiencing one. To be honest I still dont beleive anyone has just had their discs chewed for no reason if the instructions are read. It says go to dashboard and take the disc out before turning off the console, dont move it or anything of the sort.
3 years ago
But me talking about the PS2 not scratching discs EVEN though I did what I wasn't supposed to is just pointing out the fact that you can't judge a problem on things that you think are the cause.You don't believe that people have had their disc scratched for no reason just because it doesn't sound logical.Also I did say that I had a PS2 break on me for no apparent reason, which just goes to show that for something to happen, you don't always have to have caused it yourself.But I'm sure you will just say that I MUST have done something to break my PS2 twice.

I look after myself, but that doesn't mean I can't fall over and break a bone.Just like someone who does stunts on a motorbike doesn't guarantee they will break something.

The fact is that IF Msoft DID know beforehand that 360's could scratch you discs without doing anything wrong with the console, then your belief is only a belief and not fact.But we will never know that.

With that said, if you don't understand my posts, then either you just don't understand what I have been saying (or at least what I think I'm saying) , or I just understand something that is only understandable to me.

The simple fact is that I know what I'm going on about and as long as I understand what I'm saying then it doesn't really matter if you understand me or not.
3 years ago
Its pretty hard to understand what your saying if you dont make sense. If you read what I said (Which was*) I DO NOT beleive that discs get scratched UNLESS the instructions are accidentally adhered too, whether it be by and infant, pet, someone who moved it but thought it didnt consititute a move, somneone who leaves the disc in the disc tray when the console is off an a plesthora of other things they say not too in the manual, and I beleive people only say that theirs broke without reaason as they do not want to be blamed.

As for your ps2 the instructions are a PRECAUTIONARY measure, Just in case an accident where to happen, It doesnt matter if the accident never happened, they want you to be prepared for it so idiots dont sue them. It doesnt matter if microsoft knew xbox's COULD scratch discs, because they expected people to be able to read the instructions (or at least call the reading writing hotline or something) so they could understand the simple instructions given to them hence not to be sued either. For example if I make a toy that could snap for example if someone doesnt read the instructions, then people go ahead and snap it anyway, thats their fault, even though It was made clear the problem could occur.

And one of the reasons I dont understand your posts is you keep uttering the word 'understand":

Example: if you dont UNDERSTAND my posts, then you dont UNDERSTAND what i haev been saying ( or ast least what I think im saying) or i just UNDERSTAND something that is only UNDERSTANDable to me.

Now that in itself is a puzzle
3 years ago
Commentator wrote
And one of the reasons I dont understand your posts is you keep uttering the word 'understand":

Example: if you dont UNDERSTAND my posts, then you dont UNDERSTAND what i haev been saying ( or ast least what I think im saying) or i just UNDERSTAND something that is only UNDERSTANDable to me.

Now that in itself is a puzzle
Then I stumped you if you can't figure out my puzzle icon_razz.gif

I used to say the same thing like 10 times a lot lol.
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